Chris from Jowett Car Club Meets 3 On The Column Classic Car Podcast

On a recent podcast,  Andrew and I got to meet the team from Crossley Motorsport, when we were able to hear first hand about the joy, passion, skills and sheer hard graft that have been lavished on their Jowett Jupiter race car. Their successes have included an impressive 14th place, out of a field of 82, at the Classic Le Mans 24 hrs and qualifying to race at this year's Goodwood meeting.  We also heard on that podcast about the inspiration and support from a gentleman called Chris Spencer of the Jowett Car Club. 

On this podcast, we are really excited to meet Chris and hear all about the Jowett Car Club's contribution to Crossley Motorsport's success story with their Jowett.

There is probably no greater expert on Jowett Cars than Chris Spencer.  It is fair to say that Chris has spent a lifetime driving, owning and restoring these cars, as well as promoting the Jowett Car Cub.  He happily jumped at the chance to help the Crossley team run a Jowett Jupiter.  With an average age of just 22, and the buzz that this team is able to create, Chris can see that they will be ensuring the relevance of the Jowett Jupiter for decades to come.  

Transcript

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Hi, all through to the Three on the Column podcast with Brian Thomas and Andrew Roberts. Hello, and we have a very special guest on the programme this evening. We have a lovely gentleman called uh Chris Spence from the Jowett Car Club. Am I right? It is Jowett's Car Club and not Jarrett Owners Club. It is, it's Jarrett Car Club. Uh the world's oldest single-mate car club. Wow. That is amazing. Formed in 1923. Wow. Wow. And it's great to have you on board the uh podcast today. Thank you very, very much for joining us. And um I sort of first heard of yourself on the um the Jowett uh club from uh the guys at Crossley Motorsport, who, as you know, were on our podcast a few weeks ago. And um you're probably gonna tell us hopefully the story of that wonderful Jowett Jupiter from your side, which uh will be um quite interesting, I think. So uh would you like to sort of introduce yourself, please, Chris? Yeah. Certainly. So I've been involved in Jowitz and the car club itself uh what since 2009. Uh found out purely by accident uh after I purchased a javelin that my late stepfather actually ran one back in the early 60s. Uh I can't recall it. I was still in nappies at the time. Uh but I pulled up outside my mum's place back up in Barnsley in Yorkshire and she said, Javelin, your dad had one. And I said, No, he didn't, I can't recall it. But anyway, she unearthed out of the little shoebox of black and white photographs, family photographs, uh, a picture of that car. Uh he only kept it for three months, he used it as a taxi in his in his in his trade, uh, but allegedly it was so reliable that he traded it in for an Austin 860 Cambridge. So But uh I that javelin came to me as a as a part X deal on a on a Jaguar that I sold for some to somebody. Uh I don't really deal in cars, but I used to restore one, run it, have another one in my workshop that I I'd restore for myself, get that to the road, and then sell the one that I was running, and it just kept me entertained for lots of a better expression. Um after I learned that he owned the javelin and I was seeing the picture, I still own the car. Uh and and and hence my my journey into Jowitz and Jowett ownership and the car club uh uh started and it's never it's never waned since. Uh Crosley Motorsport. Now there's an interesting team. Uh I originally came across Julian Crosley, who's who's the owner of the team, uh, because he owned a javelin. Uh so my interest on it. Yeah, my interest was peaked, and he was racing this javelin. Uh, and he's now had that car in 11 years, uh, and he's had more failures than successes, but he's learnt and learnt and learnt, and he hasn't given in. Uh so a couple of years ago, Julian approached me and said that Chris uh Ed's son is making a uh quite a good handy uh serious racing driver on historics with the javelin and they've got a Mini Cooper and they've got an A35 or all for racing. Uh we'd like a Jupiter because we'd like to go to Le Mon. And the Jupiters were raced at Le Monde by the factory in 50, 51, and 52 and won their class. Uh so therefore, providing you can get a PM correct car and it meets historic racing regulations, you can go and race at Le Mon in the classic 24 hours. And uh he said, Do you think you can find me a car? Uh so I invited him down to my place uh and I had a car actually in my possession that I was sold him on behalf of a deceased estate, which was a project car, it wasn't running, but it was a solid car. Uh uh, needless to say, they purchased it, off they went, uh, started to to do uh the drivetrain for it, and uh once they finished with the drivetrain at 12 13, they then sent it back to me. Now I own a little restoration business, I've salt trading. I specialise in Jowitz, and so I was the natural the natural person to send it back to. So I then did various chassis modifications, continued their work, and then did all the panel work for them on their behalf. Uh first time out of the box was in uh 2025. Uh they done some testing, they took it to Le Mon, uh, entered it into Plateau 2, which is the French's version of a grid, uh, against 82 other vehicles, one other Javelin uh uh from the UK, uh sorry, Jupiter from the UK, and uh it did extraordinarily well uh to be up against things like uh uh XK 120s, Austin Elis, uh Alard J2s, uh early Porsche 356s, uh and a whole mixture of various other uh little known makes, some very well-known makes out there as well, uh, but early early 300 SL Mercedes, uh and then a whole list of various other things, some of some of which even I'd not come across in my life, uh you think because of their naming that they carry Italian names, but they're actually built in Birmingham. Uh things things like crefts, uh which were a hand-built car, uh alloy body built in Birmingham, uh uh all sorts of mixtures of things, right down to panards, you know, even 750cc horizontally opposed twins, uh, were out there with very, very lightweight body. Uh but but but raced back in the it back in period. Um so you are put into a class at at uh Classic Lambon, uh Plateau 2K for cars built developed between 1948 and 1954, uh which the Jupyter Alliance with. Uh I don't know how the Crosley team did it, but out of 82 cars they came 14th. Uh incredible incredible. Uh young Edward, Edward Crosley is is a very competent, very, very quick, very keen. Uh but arts off to the team, the team really just are something really, really special out there in today's in today's field of historic racing. The average age of that team is 22. Exclude father. Uh but once you've excluded father, the eight members of that team are uh uh like I say are averaging 22. It it's really un unheard of in in in historic racing, really. It is, isn't it? And I think that actually comes from excuse me, that actually comes from the passion, doesn't it? I mean just when we were on a podcast with them, I mean there just wasn't a dull moment, the excitement, the passion, and clearly the drive that they've got. And as well as that, I think it was their ability to understand, I think, just what is needed in terms of building and setting up the car. Um it wasn't just their drive and passion, it was actually it's a very, very good racing team. Um I I it's extraordinary, as you say. Um, I don't know what you think, Andrew, when you're on the podcast. I mean, they were just amazing, weren't they? It was a combination of their enthusiasm, their tenacity in pursuing their goal, their fluency, and their passion, and not only their passion, but um their joy in conveying their passion for the cars and the world in which they operate. And they understood the historical context of the cars as well. And I think our younger listeners might be interested, and I hope they are, in learning just how important the javelin was to post-war British motoring. And I'll ask our guests, well, that's going to be that's quite a question. Uh very much so. Uh uh it's not a lot of people complicate the javelin and the Jupiter, but without the Javelin, the Jupiter would would have never come to be. Um and the Jupiter largely uh uh has the virtually the identical drivetrain of uh of of the javelin in the first place. But the javelin uh and there's many contenders that uh will argue with the wise and state of the wise, uh, the javelin was the first all new clean sheet design that emanated post-war. Uh uh quite obviously working on it behind the scenes in the war years, uh, but it it was the first one uh that that emanated, whereas most manufacturers went back to what they were producing uh pre-war uh and just changed colours and and maybe changed the colour of the trim. Uh, largely they just went back to what to what they had in house at that time. Gianto was the first one to come out, open the book, and and produce an all new car, clear tree design. Uh and and and with nothing left over from what was uh pre-war uh uh uh apart from you know the fact that they had a name already made for themselves. Uh it was a very streamlined car. Uh it was quite quick, and and it was uh really truly they marketed it as a six-seater family car because there were two bench seats, front bench seat in the front, column change, uh, and a bench seat in the rear. And and you can, it's a bit of a squeeze, but six in a javelin, it's quite doable. Um and a very, very competent car. Uh also oh all also uh the world's first production car with a curved glass windscreen. Uh was it? Wow. Yeah, yes and it was at its absolute infancy with curved glass windscreen was when when the javelin came to the market, but they were the first ones to do it. Great. Wow. And that is sorry, Andrew. I believe it's also the first British car with a steering column gear change. Do you know? I I wouldn't know. I wouldn't know. I've heard that rumour. So and again, if you look at the specification, and remember this is a vehicle that took part in the um Golden Jubilee of the British motor industry displayed July 1946, 27 to beat the site. I mean, think of its specification. All independent torsion bar suspension, rack and pinion steering, a flat four one and a half litre engine. I mean, I mean, obviously, British deliveries didn't start until 1948, and even then to the select few, but it was certainly a vehicle worth waiting for. Can I just scotch the rumour on the rack and pinion steering? It's not. Or go on. It's a steering box. I like to be scotched. But but you say this is a first and dream, this has not happened before. How did this rumour come about? I'm not quite sure. Maybe there's some confusion because the Jupiter does have a steering rack. Ah, it's a good one. And that steering rack is unique to the car, and the steering box on the javelin is unique to the car as well. Uh Chowett didn't really go outside to people for things to be produced. I mean, the rear axle, the differential, it is a Salisbury 3HA. Uh, so obviously that that they went to Salisbury Axles for that. Uh the initial gearboxes fitted to the javelin was a Meadows manufactured box, but it didn't take didn't take uh Jowett very, very long to think that or actually to put production in-house on on the gearbox, uh, the engine is theirs. Uh part from apart from things like like Lucas products for the switch gear and the headlights and lighting, everything else is is all in-house on Chowett. Uh but of course Jowett went about it a very, very different way to a lot of other manufacturers. Uh and they went to Briggs Motorbodies in Doncaster. And Briggs actually built the body shell as a painted, trimmed, uh wired body shell that was delivered directly to the Jalant Factory at Idle in Bradford, where the road where the drivetrain was fitted. So they did contract out some work, uh, especially the body shell on the on the javelin. Uh the Jupiter different kettlefish. Uh uh, so they built their own chassis to a uh a uh Ed Orbadurst design uh who was with the ERA at the time. Uh uh tubular space frame chassis, one of the first production sports cars to do so uh because it predates the Jaguar C type. Which was famous for its all tumulus uh space frame chassis, uh, but Java bet them to it again. Uh sorry, many first This is incredibly high tech, isn't it? For what you would perceive when you think of the Mitre Ford and General Motors and kind of things like this. I mean, this is in effect a fairly small factory, isn't it? Um sort of in the north of England. And and look at the talent that they must have and the quality of the engineers that you would think if they can do it in Bradford, then all the big manufacturers would be doing it. It it almost doesn't make sense, does it really? I think at the height of production they had eight, nine hundred staff. They th that that was doubled in the war years for for for war production. Uh you know, they had over two thousand staff then, but but it in in car production, I think I think at the height of car production they that they were eight, nine hundred stuff. Um which is not huge in in in full manufacturing terms. Uh 24 a little over 24,000 javelins built. Uh nine hundred and four Jupiters. Uh and here's the is is is a little amazing fact. Out of the 904 Jupiters, there's approximately half of those survive. Really? Gosh. And as a Jupiter specialist, uh just when you think they've all been built, all been found, they've all been restored, they've all been done, you know, the phone rings, and and and here there is there's two more just being found in Ealing in London. In in in in in in in a rear garden, you know, what can you tell me about them? What do you know about them? How long have they been lost? Well, they've been lost 40 years, so uh they do turn up. They do turn up. It's quite surprising, yet javelins uh as a club, we've we've probably got the same amount of javelins and and nearly 24 and a half thousand of them were built. Uh but there's not not as many survived. But I I I think this is uh uh uh something that shows up in in most uh most manufacturers. If they built a sports car, the sports car will be the better survivor than what the saloon or or commercial production element of that manufacturer was. Perhaps the it's the passion of the owner who'd buy a vehicle like that, and maybe they have had just a less hard use than what would be the everyday run of the mill family car, perhaps. Absolutely. And when we think about it, I mean commercials were just running to the ground, weren't they? They were just used and used and used. And e even when one owner was one business, one owner, one sole trader had finished with them, it still found another two or three, maybe four or five, maybe several more owners in its lifetime before eventually it got scrapped. Sadly. Well, I was going to ask, how what was the percentage of javelins exported to the Commonwealth and the United States? Javelins to the States, very, very few. I think there's maybe two surviving the states, maybe a couple in Canada. Uh I certainly know of one in America that belongs to Scott Renner. He's due back into the I'll say due back, he's he's constantly coming back to the UK. Uh so Scott is the only other known professional restorer of Jowitz in the world. Two of us, there's me and there's Scott. And Scott's based out in LA in California. Wow. So he's got a javelin and he's got several Jupiters. He still retains uh, I think two of his late fathers' cars, uh, plus another Jupiter on top of that. Uh Scott races out in America and then he comes to the UK and forms uh one of the race teams uh with several other members. Uh uh so that car belongs to Harry Nagan, which I also look after. Uh and we've got a date we're heading out to uh a circuit called Charard in France, down near the Mediterranean. Uh we've never been before. It looks it looks for all intents and purposes like a uh a spa circuit in the sun. Uh Sterling Moss described it as the world's most beautiful race circuit back in his day. So uh we're gonna take Sterling on his word and go and find out. Yes, yes. So racing is very much in your passion, then, isn't it, really? It always has been. Uh uh I'm not into Gordon racing, I'm not into Formula One. I I do love historic racing. Uh and to see the historic cars turn out there and compete, uh uh and I mean there's some real passion out there. I I was at the members' meeting at Goodwood quite recently with the Crosley team. Um I I what I appreciate everybody, I really, really take my hat off to the guys that that that that race the Edward stuff. Uh I mean what uh you you know they've got cars there that are heading down the straight, you know, close to 100 miles an hour. Uh they've got a race suit and a helmet on, and they're sat in a wicker basket seat, no no belts, no harness, no nothing. Uh and they're there for the dear life of it. Some of those cars are running on rear brakes only, some of them are chain drive. Uh you know, it's quite incredulous as to as to you know the the actual determination that they've got to race such vintage machinery. I mean, some of those cars are uh are now heading for over a hundred years old. And and there's no Ellsbard. They're racing as competent as as what we would in a modern touring car. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Uh you wouldn't get me one. You might get me on the space. I was jealous uh doesn't sound like you're volunteering, Chris. Are gone. I I will willingly be a grease monkey any day because I I it's it's such a thing to get behind the team and support it. Um so tell us a bit about your racing then, because you're obviously touching on that there. So what's your kind of racing background? I never raced a stock, so I raced uh I raced I raced a very working man sport. Uh so I started with a bit of karting uh and then I got into stock cars. Now people confuse stock cars for barricars. Yes, they do confuse it for a car that's that's been taken off the road, it's it's likely to go to scrap. So let's race it round a small oval circuit on the shale or tarmark and and just you know beat it to a pump, really. Uh stock car isn't that. Stockcar is a purpose-built ladder rail chassis, uh uh well-engineered, uh, it could be powered by a normally aspirated engine of any cubic capacity size. Uh so when I started, it weren't unusual to find people using uh uh whatever they could put the hands on, really. Uh so V8 Ford's uh uh V12 Jaguars weren't weren't unrealistic, uh, but a very clever gentleman uh uh up in Rochdale in Lancashire called Stuart Smith, and bless him, he's no longer with us, uh multi, multi, multi uh uh world-winning champion, worked out that you could get a chef something called the Chevrolet V8, uh, and the sport came into its own. Uh just just and uh even today the sport is run uh uh Brisker, it's known as uh uh British Sock Car Racing Association, uh is still running Chevrolets. Uh I was about six and a half litre back in the day, they're well into eight and a half litre nowadays. Yeah uh on essentially what is a speedway truck. Yeah, yeah. Racing anti-clockwise with a big wing to keep your your your the rear end of the car down and to keep some stability in the car, uh and off you go, you you know they used to run a heat, uh depends on how many cars you've got, but people used to uh uh race from wherever they wherever they were based, and and a lot of the circuits now are have all gone. There's very few of the circuits exist today. Uh Sheffield's still there, uh we lost Coventry several years ago. Uh but but we used to think nothing of you know, there's Nelson, Rochdale, Blackburn, Manchester, Bellevue, Manchester, White City, Sheffield Log Eaton, uh, Leicester was another one, uh Kingslyn is still going, as is Mildenhall. It is. Yeah, that they're both very near to me, actually. Milden Hall is about 15 minutes away from me. Yeah, I'm many a happier time at Mildenhorn. Yeah. Uh Boston was another one, crew, uh Skegness, Claythorps. We used to get and then we used to go out. That there's only really two more countries that race race on that form, you know. The Dutch are very heavily into it. Uh, but New Zealand races as well. So you could have a world championship, uh, and then you'd invite a driver over from the States who was really running NASCAR or something, or or some type of derp track out there, uh, and you do an exchange, they'd come and race one of your cars, and you can go out there and race one of their cars. Fun and games, uh very tiring, very tired, because we'd think nothing, we'd think nothing of going and doing Bradford on Friday night, coming back home to Doncaster, repairing the car, back out on Saturday down to Coventry. We'd then drive through the night from Coventry, so we'd pack up at about 10 o'clock when the race was finished up that evening, go and get something to eat, just a local chippy or whatever we could find that was open, to be honest. Uh somebody would drive through the night to take a transporter and a trailer with two race cars, and the transporter was a converted coach by the way. Uh Wow, like in the Italian job. Yeah, literally, you used to put a roller shutter door in the back of them. Sure. And a ramp up into the back, a subframe up into the back over the top of the back wheels. Uh, one car would go in the back with the spares, and the other one would go on a trailer, and and then you'd drive through the night to get to Skegness at about four o'clock in the morning. Uh, you'd park up, try and get a little bit of sleep, and then you you you'd be back out at at nine o'clock, you'd you know, for breakfast on a barbecue, if the weather was good, hopefully. Uh, and then you'd be racing at like one o'clock. But it wasn't done then. Uh at you know, at four o'clock when the racing was finished, you'd pack back up, and if your car was viable, being the transporter, you'd be back over to either Kingsling or Milden Hall or or over to Boston, and you'd race that night on Sunday night. Uh, and then you'd head home getting back home at like two o'clock on a Monday morning and back up at six for work. Uh great days, but oh, I couldn't do that anymore. No, right and and and I don't really follow the sport that much. I will occasionally go to a will fire on there and again, but of course, uh, I'm now in my sixties. Uh the guys that were racing in those days, their sons and grandsons are now racing. Yes, yeah. It's very much a family tradition, isn't it? It is. And also the banger racing, there's been many sort of world championship banger racing people, and you see the next generation sort of comes through. And I think what's kind of interesting about those stock cars is that you could almost look at one, I'm sure you will know the difference. But if I look back to when I was growing up and I sort of grew up in um sort of Ilford, East London, of course, that was fairly close to Wolfhamstow Stadium, where they used to do those, and probably about 20 years or so ago, I think it turned into flats, I think, and obviously went, and uh not many miles away we had Arena Essence Speedway, which is another um circuit at the time. But when I look back to my days watching that sport as a kid and sort of looking at cars now, the cars don't really seem to have changed at all. They seem it's a basic, as you say, sort of ladder frame chassis, long bonnet, same or very similar sort of cab with the big sort of spoiler on the roof with the number on, and uh it it seems fairly sort of consistent through the years. I mean, I'm sure maybe the technology's improved a bit, but am I right with that? Is it a fairly standard? I'd say it's come on leaps and bearers with with technology. Uh okay. The thing that really spoiled it for me is that we used to race on or whatever tires we could put our hands on, second-hand dumbbell up RS5s off road raises or bent on the outside back. But the whole car is staggered. Uh, because it races anti-clockwise on an oval. Better expression, it it it's four-wheel speedway. Right, yeah. The whole car is staggered, so you put 16 inch on the outside back and and uh uh 15 inch on the inside back, 12 inch on the inside front, and 13 inch on the outside front. The whole car is is effectively just up on a wedge. Sure. Staggered axles, bias braking, but in the last 10-15 years they really have moved on leaps and bounds, so they they've now got uh uh they've now got gearboxes that the quick change that they can change in the pits, uh depending on the length of the circuit, so that they get better gear. The rear differential though is very interesting because that is locked. So both back wheels, you are not allowed limited slip differentials or standard standard differentials. Both back wheels must turn together. And effectively the cars look as though they're coming down straight in a straight line, and uh effectively they're not. They're coming down on on basically they're crabbing down the straight. Uh they're built to go fast round the corners, basically. But very very much like what what NASCAR do on their ovals, you know. I'm just gonna say it must be similar to that concept, yeah. But going back to the only go around in the same direction, don't they? So yeah. But going back to historic motorsport, I th I I think is is where my heart's leapt over the last 20 years or so. Uh uh I mean I mean some of the pieces of machinery that are getting turned out, it it you know, the fact that people are prepared to go and race, you know, in some cases a million pounds of a car plus. Uh uh, you know, and trust their judgment in driving it, uh, and sometimes trust to other people's judgment in driving it, because quite a lot of owners don't don't actually race the car, that they leave it to somebody else or or it drive to a professional or a retired professional in to drive their cars. I that that's pretty typical of what happens at Goodwood and uh and out at the mall at Spa 24. Um you know, and and to see people put that trust in other drivers, I'm not quite sure if I earned a million pounds with the race kill, whether I I'd want to trust others with my car, to be honest. But people do. And it's great to see, it's it's absolutely fabulous to see. Uh so the the the Crosley team go on because uh even when they're stood still, they're still picking up Silverware. So they came to our uh the Jalak Car Club's annual rally that we we hold every year, we move it around the country, it's a hotel venue that we tend to base it at. This year it was uh Sutton Scotland down near Winchester. Next year it's up in Harrigar. But I managed to entice four of the younger members of the team. Uh Julian did pop in for the day, uh, but four of them came down and overnight with us. Uh um bless them. They they won our sporting challenge shield, uh George Mitchell Rosebow for their exploits over those last years, uh, and they went on to pick up the prize for the best special body Jupiter. Uh so it when they're standing still there, they they're still picking up bits of silver. They're winning. Yeah, they're just winners, aren't they? Uh it it they need to be rewarded for what they are. Uh and off the back of what they've done, we've recognised this as a club. When we saw what they were achieving, we went back to committee and we discussed it and said, how can we support them? We are not a rich club. We have 750 members worldwide, we don't have a big bank account, we have enough to get by on as a car club and we survive. Uh, and we're there to support our members in whatever way that we can. So the way that we went about it is is is that rather than just sit on our laurels and say, what can we do for the younger generation, we've found a way that we can support them. So we've made them members. But we've made them members up until the age of 30 free of charge. Wow. Because we want them to be involved. And we've opened that, we've opened that up now to what we call our next generation members. So anybody that wants to come and join a jow at car club or takes an interest in shouts, they can join free of charge if they're 18 to 30. We're not asking for a birth certificate, we're just asking for them to be honest with us. Come and join us if you like what you see, if you like what you hear, if you want to get involved, then so be it. But as a car club, we don't want to sit still. Uh yeah, we keep asking this big question: what happens when we are not here? Who owns our cars? Who do we pass them on to? If you've got family, great. But that doesn't guarantee that your family's gonna be interested. And in some cases they're not. So uh and I see this happen maybe too regular because quite a lot of our members are are getting well into their seventies, well into their eighties, uh but two or three times a year have to deal with the deceased estate. Uh and it's difficult because you you you want to sell the car uh on behalf of the family, uh but you want to sell it to the right home. Yes. And and and I sort of I sort of go on a vetting procedure for wants of a better expression. If I know the people, it's an easy sale on behalf of the family. But if it's not, it's difficult, really. It's difficult to say that it's going to a good home because you don't really know. You Yeah, and and you absolutely I mean, ideally, in an ideal world, you'd you'd sell a a Jower to somebody who perhaps is looking for that type of vehicle, or maybe they're already a jaw owed, and then you know it it's another person into the club as well. So you've got like a a full set there on the wish list, haven't you? I mean, are you finding with is there any sort of concept yet of how successful the Crossley Motorsport has been in terms of awareness of the brand as a car? Are you getting, if not necessarily, new members that have come from Crossley, although they are members? Is there any sort of feeling as to if the Jow message is getting across to a younger generation? Are you feeling that at all? Absolutely, absolutely uh that that evokes uh uh quite a lot of conversations. Uh the younger sort of the team tends to uh draw an audience regardless. Uh and they're drawing audiences across the board, not not just from the younger generation, they're they're they're you know they're getting a lot of respect from the elder generation as well. Yeah. So people are starting to to to to notice how you you know what they're doing, what they're creating. Uh I think the other thing is about them, they are hugely proactive in PR. They they are they know what buttons to press. They do. Uh uh and and if they're not being pressed, then they'll go and find the button. Uh typical at the members' meeting at Goodwood, they they went off, they they noticed that Goodwood have got their own camera teams. Uh and they're wandering about and they're they I I they they noticed about three or four cars down the paddock that the camera team was all over this Ferrari. It went out in practice, it broke down, but there was still all all over this Ferrari when it came back in. Uh, and it it broke to the extent it wasn't going to go out in because it had not qualified, it could have started at the back of the grid, but it was so broken it weren't going to run in the main race on the following day. But because it was a Ferrari, this camera team was still all over it. And they went and knocked they basically found the producer. I said, I I know you've I know you like this Ferrari, uh, but you know, do you want to come and listen to the other side of the story from the younger generation? And they did. And they were all over them. They're very proactive, they're they're very good at going and knocking on that door, they're very good at at sticking a YouTube piece together, they're very good at uh popping something onto Instagram that appeals to the market. Uh and while ever they're capable of doing that, they'll always get house up, yeah, regardless, you know. Uh so uh out of all of them uh that's there, it you know, my mantra really is that I I know they're part of a racing team, they're young, some of them are just still at university, some of them have left, they're just starting their careers, they're starting quite exceptional careers because a handful of them are with are with Williams, they've gone to a football. Oh aren't they? Yeah, yeah. So it you know, they've got some real real prospects about them. Um but but they're just not sort of coming forward that that they're just on the ball with it. Uh so I regardless where they go, they seem to create this buzz. Uh uh credit to them, you know. If they can keep doing that, uh now if I can just get one of those guys out of eight of them to somehow in the next five, ten years, go and buy a jowed because they're that enthused by it, then mission accomplished, as far as we're concerned, is a carcard. Because we've put enough enthusiasm their way for them to want to own something that's got that's Jan Pranted. You've actually put you've sow the seed, and that's absolutely essential. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Uh probably much like many other clubs, uh you know, sadly we've seen a a recession in in the prices, of course, but we we we've now got models that are available to the younger generation and the older generation that all of a sudden have come down to uh very, very realistic pricing. You can pick a fairly nice javelin up all of a sudden for five, six, seven thousand, you can pick a decent Jupiter up for fifteen to twenty thousand. Um vintage, now there's some proper steals. If if if you can qualify and tolerate vintage motoring, uh I don't think you have to tolerate it, I think you have to love it. Uh it you know, it's so much fun holding everybody else up. It genuinely is. It genuinely is for for me to total out in my little 10 horsepower 37 Jarrett, you know, four-speed crash gearbox, it you know, 1260cc, uh and just do literally 30 and 40 mile an hour zones because it won't go much quicker. Uh I uh I I you know it it might annoy a few people, but most people it it plants a smile on their faces. Yeah. They see see the car, they fall in love with it. Yeah, uh but sadly some don't, some want to go a lot quicker, obviously. But well, that that's always the thing, isn't it? And um but but it's doing the right thing. It it's putting every time you put that car out on the road, um then it's another group of people that see the car, isn't it? And um it engenders, I mean, I think if you see any parent with a small boy or small girl or child or somebody, they all if they see a car like that, their mums and dads will always point to the car, and even if they just say, Oh, have a look, there's an old car, the first thing the kids do is wave, isn't it? That's right, that's right. That's right, they may not know what that car is, but every single parent or grandparent with that child will draw their attention to it and absolutely, absolutely creates um I mean there's there's a um company at the moment, um Bridge Classic Cars, who do a competition prize each week, and um they've just they've got uh a Riley, a a classic um sort of hundred-year-old Riley, and they've turned it into a children's book, basically, sort of something, sort of if you imagine something along the lines of brum. And the idea behind it is to get people, children to realise that things that are of a certain vintage age can be sustainable. Um they can run them on some modern fuels. Um, it's about basically the story of this car that you know falls asleep in its hibernation period where it's left in the Back of a shed somewhere and it grows, wakes up into a modern world with little electric cars and kind of everything else, and and the whole concept is that this is something to be cherished because it's sustainable, it's an older vehicle, and I think increasingly people are looking at classic vehicles as something of that you don't just throw away, it is something to be cherished and loved. So I kind of feel maybe somewhere along the line the tide is turning a bit towards older cars. Absolutely. Absolutely. It's getting them out there, it's the only way that you would engender that enthusiasm is by people see them, enjoy them, admire them, and the younger and younger that I mean you probably won't get so many three-year-olds joining the club. But um well let me let me just surprise you otherwise. Just surprise you. So uh before before we we came about with our 18 to 30s next generation part of the club, we've always run something called Jowett Juniors. Oh wow, which which caters for the one-week old to up to the 18-year-old. Uh and and that is so that we can make them feel part of the club that they're not just being dragged along by parents, that they've not been dragged along by granddad and and and nanny because you know they brought their car and they want to go to the rally, but they're childcare duties. Uh we want to make them feel a special part of the club, and we genuinely go out of our way to ensure that. So we have we have fun and games at our annual rally, we always involve them. We have uh a committee member who's a retired school teacher, and she takes care of them. They've got their own badges, they've got their own logo, they get their own little bit in the magazine every two months. Uh uh we really, really go out of our way to make sure that they're a special part. They design uh our birthday cards and Christmas cards that we sell through the club. Uh all sorts of little bits and pieces that we do for them, and something rather spectacular happened at our rally last weekend. So uh Sarah Pound, who was a Jowett Junior in her own right, uh along with her sister Rachel, uh been members virtually all their lives. Uh Sarah is just creeping into her thirties and appeared on Saturday with something rather rather special, and that was her seven-day-old daughter, Poppy. And that put a tear in everybody's eye. That, you know, we've got a Jarrett Junior that's now produced offspring, and then brought them to the club, and at that point Poppy became our youngest ever member of Jarrett Juniors at seven days old. Apparently beating the previous record of 14 days old from about 30 odd years ago. But um, but out there and and uh as a club, that's what you've got to do. You've you've got to you've got to slightly think outside the box, you've not got to pay lip service to it, you've got to be genuine. And and you've got to look after your people, not just your older members, not not just your in-between members, but but your younger members as well. They are so important to us as a club. There's no guarantees, there's no guarantees that when they get to 18 they're gonna go and buy a shower, there's no guarantees that that uh that that their dad's gonna pass the car down to them. Uh chances are uh they will grow with us as a family, as the Jalot family, uh the willboard to continue. It's very, very rare and exceptional that they don't. But as a club, I think you've just got to continue to think outside that box. Uh you've got to be highly just like the Crossley T, you've got to be highly proactive. We are I th I I think we we box well above our weight. Uh uh we are multiple award winning at the restoration show at the NEC in uh every March. Uh and we've been there since concept. Uh so this was our you you you have to cancel two years because of COVID. But but in March that was our 13th year, and we picked up yet another award. Uh and I don't have room for them anymore. I thought I'm gonna have to start farming them out to different fireplaces. Uh uh so it it it it's great to have that. Uh we do something rather special in August. You'd be very welcome to attend. So uh up in Bradford at the Bradford Industrial Museum, which is a council owned uh uh venue, uh quite rightly as part of the the industrial history of Bradford, they have the world's largest public museum collection of jarrons. I think there's 17 there at the minute. Uh but on August the 7th, we hold August the 8th, sorry, it's a Saturday, we hold something called the reunion. That reunion is uh a general meeting, but it's put on specially for former employees of the of the factory at Ivan Branch to attend. Now we've got about 30, but they're all in the late 80s and early 90s and uh plus now. And tragically we lose a couple of each each year because their age uh but they would have been apprentices when the factory closed in 1954. Uh so uh that's another special event that we do every year, you know, it's a free of charge event, everybody can attend. Uh but it it just adds to our background of we're a very, very family-oriented club at the end of the day. Uh we'd like to look after our members. Hmm. That is interesting. Yeah, thank you for that. Um yeah. And what are your thoughts, Andrew, and these wonderful casts? I would say that it's thanks to the activities of the club and of Chris, although Chris is a gentleman and modest and would deny it. But it's thanks to people to volunteers, and I I don't think we can emphasize this enough. It is due to volunteers giving up of their time, their expertise, and their enthusiasm, etc. That the Jowitt name is alive today over 70 years after its you know, demise on the new car market. But but I'm only I'm only one that you know, there's another 30 people in the background all doing a little bit. Uh I can't go without not mentioning uh uh another another sort of what I consider a very, very unique part of Jalak Car Club, and that is Jalakar Spears. Now, when we start to talk about uh club-related spares departments, uh I'm sure that in most cases people pigeon o them and think that it's three guys that meet every Wednesday night for a can of Guinness, and they've got two two and a half garden sheds between them where they sort out a few rusty bits of metal and and and chew the cut and and put right the world for a couple of hours and and maybe sort somebody out with a sprigged pin uh that get on eBay anyway for two pounds fifty. And I'm exaggerating, I know I am, but Jallock Car Space is something host and very special. So it's been in existence over fifty fifty years, it's run by the club for the club, so it's run on a completely voluntary basis. Uh we don't own the building, we let it. Uh and in there is a sight to be old. There's uh probably in excess of a hundred tonne of spares. Some new, some remanufactured, uh, some in development, uh, awful lot of use spares, uh care, you know, catering for the entire range of vehicles that ever built, which is probably about 20-25 models from concept 1906, uh, due to production in 1910, right up to 1954. And they are such an avid source of interest, they meet every week. Uh I for my SINS or for one of my other SINS uh uh sort of run round the country organizing spares that are donated to us, that are bequeathed to us. And and uh I've run four seven and a half ton trucks up there in the last two years from uh uh deceased estates in in in in two particular cases, uh deceased estates. So I was pulling over three tonne of spares out uh with a taillift seven and a half ton truck. Uh we will we will take everything if there's scrap amongst it, or sometimes there is because of storage or the fact that people just don't have the heart to throw it away even though it is scrap. Uh we will sort all of that on behalf of the estate, uh, and then it goes up to spares. Uh they will send sell back to owners to put members, uh, but not particularly on a profit-related basis. We are our our whole ethos is let's keep our cars on the road. Let's not outprice the spares due to the the uh due to the car being an expensive car. Uh let's sell it at a fair market rate. But I I compared this to somebody the other day. Go and buy a lightweight alloy Jaguar E-type wing, even if it's used, it's gonna cost you a thousand pairs, isn't it? Yeah, yeah. Then consider it to the same thing, uh a used wing, alloy wing, it's got for a giant Jupiter, still made of alloy, it's got the same amount of skill level in it, it's got the same amount of alloy in it. Uh, so therefore it should be worth a thousand pairs. But we don't sell it, but we don't sell it for a thousand pairs. We sell it for a hundred and fifty. Because we don't just going back to the mantra, we don't want the price of parts to be a cost barrier or a barrier to the ownership of owning, restoring or keeping the kill. And that's how we work. There's very few clubs work that way. Uh, I do know of a few more. We're we're we're not completely unique, uh, but we know of some that that are highling by a wing and a prayer. Uh we know the Armstrong Sidney owners club, they've got 7,000 squares foot for their space facility. Uh, and they work on the same basis as what we do. Uh but other clubs have got better setups, uh, clubs uh uh proficient in the fact that they've got a lot more members. MG Owners Club is a is a site to be a hold. And they can do it professionally, they can employ staff, uh, that they can have fancy computer systems, they can have online websites. We can't go down houses. Ring us, leave a message, and we'll get back to you, or or send us an email and we'll come back to you, we'll tell you what we've got, we'll send you pictures. Uh, if there's technical help needed, I'm on the end of the fame. Or some of the space guys are pretty proficient at that. Uh but yeah, uh it it's an incredible facility that that uh now then I I feel sorry for the guys that go there on a cold winter's night uh on a Monday night and and they meet and they're freezing and they're wrapped up. Uh and I'd sincerely like to change that. And over the last three years we've we've launched a fund. Uh so we are visioning at some stage in the next 10-15 years having enough money to go and buy our own purpose-built premise uh and house that facility, develop that facility further, probably look at a small committee room, uh a technical centre, uh uh and housing our archive as well, which is is hugely extensive, which is currently outsourced. Um a lot of things to think about, uh a lot to wish for, uh a massive, massive dream. I'd love to think that that it could be achieved in my lifetime. Uh and it's slowly rolling, we're looking at new ideas all the time for fundraising, uh, and and every penny literally counts. Uh and and and I know that there's things out there that are more to people's heart, uh you know, mine included, you know, if I've got if I've got six pounds in my pocket, five pound may go off to the air ambulance, or five pound might go so off to the cat's protection league, but the pound can go to Jared Carter. And it yeah, we realise that we're way down the scale, that uh we've got somewhere to go yet, but once we've generated, you know, fifty, sixty, seventy thousand pounds, that's at a point that you can probably start to be listened to and you use that funding to start to generate much more funding, and then start looking at match funding, uh uh maybe you know, lottery type funding to go forward from there. Uh who knows? Who knows? It's it's early days, it's early days. Uh, but I'd love to think that we could get somewhere in in in the next 10-15 years on that on that premise. And you'll certainly be doing that with getting the members, getting the younger people doing the projects that you're doing, such as costly motorsport, and it it's getting it out there, isn't it? And uh sitting there having your sandwiches behind the car at um the local fate isn't gonna get there, and you're doing everything that you can to get there, so completely very special. There's a bit of pie in the sky there, but but but you you know, if if if you don't go out there and you don't wave the flag, that then don't expect to get notice because it it's point I I hear it from so many clubs that that you know membership is dwindling, you know, cars are not worth it, they're only worth half of what they were, you know. But come on, it's all relative. We know this, uh but I I think we can turn turn a point. I I think we can get to a point where you know uh uh the younger generation glued to a uh some type of a uh a screen or device can change. Um and there is an alternative out there. Uh you know, uh uh and I think as as society and time moves on, you you know, we we may start to realise that it it doesn't stop things from getting restored, regardless of what they are, be it historic structures, be it cars, be it steam trains, that there's a there's a lot of interest in in what is our our industrial past. Uh uh it's just channeling it and and getting people to notice you. Because it's heritage that's virtually seen as alive, usable, enjoyable, you know, vibrant. To use an over to employ a very overused term. And this is why people need to see the vehicles in use, to know, on the road, on the circuit, or wherever. And in terms of stock cars, they need to listen to Bill Maynard's old record, Stock Car Racing, it's magic. Which of course Chris is too young to remember that, I'm sure. No, no, I'm not. I'm not, not at all. You've written at all, Ryan. I haven't, I didn't hear it at all, actually. It was like a bang or something. Bill Maynard, Bill Maynard was a stock car racing enthusiast. He made a recording. He he he actually sponsored, he sponsored one of the drivers. That's right, indeed. And he made a record. Stock car racing is magic. I think I think one of the nice things that I've seen out of recent years is is some of the clubs realising that they can't do it all by themselves and therefore they're joining forces with other clubs. Because because there is alliances out there. You know, MG have got uh uh you know got a natural alliance back to British Leyland. You know, and and if you can't run a rally by yourself, maybe you can join force with it with some other club that's got some form of alignment out there with what you've got. Uh I'm I'm I'm looking at a different promotion currently, and I'm looking at aligning uh the Rally Pathfinder Club with the Gerald Car Club with the MG Magnet Club. And the reason for that is Gerald Palmer was the designer of all three cars. So therefore, you get the Gerald Palmer link, uh, three cylinder, all built round about the same era, uh, within 10-15 years, all from the same designer. Uh thereon, you put them together, you know, you've got you've got this very odd, unusual mix, but a very aligned one. Uh and I think when you see some of the clubs getting together and doing that, uh it's also really, really nice to be recognised out there in in uh certainly what I will call the club circuit. When we go to the NEC, it's not unusual for us to be approached by other clubs that are at a point that they realise they've got to do something. Uh that they're starting to die a little bit, uh, their membership is dwindling, uh, there's not as much interest as there used to be ten years ago. And it and they they come to us and they say, How do you do it? How how have you done it? How have you got to where you've got to? What makes you multi-award winning? What's making you getting noticed? You know, every other magazine that we pick up, every time we pick uh uh Classic Car Weekly up, every time we pick Practical Classics up, you're in it. How do you do it? Well, I'm on first name terms with the editors to start off with so that helps. That helps. But now I've got to a point, I'm on first name terms, and so are several other club members, uh, you know, with a features editor. Uh you know, uh and and that's you you you've just got to work at these relationships and and and keep going. Uh yeah. And it helps, it helps immensely. Uh but it it's it's it's you know, I'm very humbled by the fact that we get approached by other clubs for information, you know, how how can we do it? How have you done it? Uh uh that's great. Really is, it really is. To be to to be recognised in that way. I you know, uh, I realise I d I I don't think there's any such thing as the perfect club, to be honest with you. No uh uh you know, that's like saying you live in a perfect neighbourhood. Uh well I do apart from one neighbour. We've probably got the perfect club, maybe apart from ten members who who uh just have you know uh just have their way of doing things and saying things, you know. They don't get on with everybody, but they're members and that we respect. Yeah, brilliant. Well, Andrew, it has been an amazing podcast. Um thank you very much for coming on board. Andrew, how was that? It was amazing. A I now want a Drowett Javelin. I have driven one, and it felt like a car from the early 60s, not the late 40s. I mean, the one detail I remember about it very vividly was the what was he called it, the flexi grip steering wheel, which took some display. Yes. Yeah, but that dis that that disintegrates after about 20 years. It felt as though it was doing it as I was driving, but I could live with that with such a magnificent motor car, etc. And I also need to go and watch, in your honour, the great 1955 B movie Stock Car. You've seen it, haven't you? Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. You see, and there's a sport that's that that's moved on uh through technology but that they've also realised that they've got a very historic past so they've now got the veterans they've got the veterans association whereby uh cars that got uh you know outdated weren't raced because they were too heavy or technology had moved on uh so the engines used to come out and go into a new car or a new chassis and the old chassis just used to sit behind the back of the shed or get dumped on the tip or whatever or back of a haulage yard or wherever they that their origins laid they're all get they've all got unearthed they've all got unearthed they've all got restored and they've now got a Veterans Racing Association where they bring them out uh so the guys that hung their boots up 20 30 years ago have all of a sudden gone oh wow better do something piece of scrap round the back of the car fantastic so it's just nice it's it really is nice it's good it's absolutely fascinating looking at old Newsreal footage of stock car meets it gives you a flavour of the vehicles they use the you know the look of the stadia etc it really is remarkable on the path and movie tone YouTube channels I do recommend that uh very very quickly you do know stock car racing came about don't you I would like you to tell us because you're an expert we're your humble supplicants oh I'm not an expert but very quickly so in the days in America of prohibition when you weren't allowed alcohol uh in certain states they they used to do the runs so they used to do the moon what was called the moonlight runs which is where where moonlight gets its name from moonshine as well wasn't moonshine moonshine and moonlight runs so they used to do this to run liquor and alcohol from one state from from a state where it was wasn't prohibited into a state when it was prohibited so it came to being that that they'd run normal cars apart from the engine that they would up the engine to make the car quicker and therefore if they were chased by the police they could get away a lot quicker because they had a faster car than what the police. So what looked like a family saloon which might have had a four cylinder push rod engine in it actually had a straight six in it and it was probably had another one and a half litres to its name so therefore it was quicker and it used to outpace the police cars. And one moonshine runner to another said my car's quicker than yours and there was only one way to sort that argument yeah so that argument got sorted in a field one Sunday afternoon they made an oval uh and they raced round it and stock car racing was invented at that point and poor and it was when the Americans came over in the war years to Mildenall oh was it right that that that the sport got brought from the States into the UK so we're gonna blame the Americans I'm afraid yes Brian go out immediately and watch a great Robert Mitchram film called Thunder Road which as we know is about moonshine runners in tuned up cards. Can't do that I recognize it's a great film and Robert Mitchram co-composed the theme music wow so that's where Stockcast came from that's brilliant thank you I shall um it's about time I went back to Milden Hall I think instead of just listening to I'm honest. Sadly I need to go and have a look and um take some pictures and do a follow-up. Like I say sadly I only go m maybe once every other year to a world final it's it's nice to see but but it's not I've I've been at the sport thirty years so historics is where I am you have rekindled my interest and on I believe and on that bright spark we must say a fond and very grateful farewell to our guest. And Brian what do we always say at this time? We have to ask people to like and subscribe and then you can hear even more fantastic guests like Christopher that we've uh had this evening and we're available on all the usual places where you get your podcasts from so uh thank you again Christopher fabulous I will once it once it becomes live I will link it back to the the uh the JAH website and brilliant thank you we we can promote it from there. That's amazing thank you very much. Jen it's nice talking to you you look after yourselves and we'll catch up real soon. We will do it now and see if I get to see you in August as well by all means. Take care bye bye bye bye,